.
Feedback

Tell Us: Roslyn Country Club

How would you vote?

North Hempstead residents may get to vote in November on a proposed takeover of the Roslyn Country Club by the town, which aimed to acquire a piece of the property, after months of negotiation, through the use of the town's .  

submitted 4,000 signatures to the town clerk asking for a public vote on the proposed borrowing of $7.5 million to acquire and renovate the Roslyn Country Club property. 

On Tuesday, North Hempstead Supervisor Jon Kaiman anticipated that a vote on the matter would be brought before the public during the November election. 

Which leads to the question: How would you vote? Would you support the town's initial plan? Are there other ways to tackle a renovation? Do you have other ideas for this property? Tell us in the comments.

Editor's Note: This article has been updated to state that the town intends to purchase the property through its environmental legacy fund, not eminent domain

Lee Kalinsky July 26, 2012 at 05:36 pm
@ Nassau Taxpayer, Six Flags might be a bit large, something more like Adventureland might be a better fit. FYI Adventureland opened in 1962 on only 6 acres of land. so right there we know there is enough land for Adventureland and senior housing.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 05:37 pm
As long as there is a tattoo parlor and place to park the gang's Harleys.
Lee Kalinsky July 26, 2012 at 05:40 pm
@ Nassau taxpayer now your being silly, how many seniors ride Harley's, but the tattoo's they might do.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 05:42 pm
You'd be surprised. They sell three-wheelers now.
Ed Shendell July 26, 2012 at 06:03 pm
Unless it is combined with re-opening Petrus Park and formalizing it as a park, I would vote NO
Lee Kalinsky July 26, 2012 at 06:10 pm
@Ed Shendell I so agree. Petrus Park has to be re-opened at once!
Chris O July 26, 2012 at 06:58 pm
I fully support the TONH plan. Not sure what all these comments are about but If at most it costs the TONH resident a couple of dollars. The funds are already there for the purchase. Why not preserve open park space? Seems the opposition is more of a personal vendetta.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 07:04 pm
"A couple of dollars"? I have a bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in...
Demand forecasting isn't the Town's strong suit. "Pricing memberships to cover all the costs" while "finding the 1200-1500 members required to pay those above-market prices" is counter-factual due to demand elasticity and demand destruction, and so unlikely as to be downright laughable, if not a total fabrication from the start. Doesn't even pass the laugh test.
Stephen July 26, 2012 at 09:20 pm
In the end residents and press will read these posts. They'll have more time to reflect than a minute being accosted on a LIRR platform or at their door by a stranger. More information, too. They’ll look for substance--and in the critics’ corner find none. Claims like "Cost to be immense" or "10 employees" aren’t substance.
They’ll can find detail on the Town website. Or dial 311 and ask. Or…they can call Ed Scott (knowing he's seeking a Board seat) to ask why the Roslyn park is incapable of generating the same membership as other Town facilities (but he doesn't know; he's only guessing). They can email Marianna Wohlgemuth (knowing she’s seeking another quasi-governmental board seat). Ask her to justify her $2200 expense estimate (but she doesn't know; as she says, she just repeated a number “someone” incorrectly gave her about a 50+ acre facility in East Hill). Or write Lee Kalinsky (cutting a deal for Petrus) how he knows the costs; or ask Lloyd why debt service would be nearly $1million a year (he writes that “another speaker” said so). And so it goes. No substance. Ultimately, seems that there’s a LOT more substance to the critics’ personal interest and ambition than there is to their criticisms. If support for destroying this park plan is so strong, get a recognized expert on park construction, management or operations, collect funds to consult for a few hours and bring her to the next meeting. We are all ears.
HEATHER ROSLYN July 26, 2012 at 09:22 pm
4,000 people have a personal vendetta? OR the people of the RCC have a personal agenda? There are 668 families in the RCC area - not all of which like this idea. So should the majority get their say - YES they should in November.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 09:49 pm
For those non-economics majors out there, it's abundantly clear that demand forecasting isn't the Town's strong suit.
"Pricing memberships to cover all the costs" while "finding the 1200-1500 members required to pay those above-market prices" is counter-factual due to demand elasticity and demand destruction, and so unlikely as to be downright laughable -- if not a total fabrication from the get-go. Bottom line: the Town's business case doesn't even pass the laugh test.
Linda Zarin July 26, 2012 at 10:00 pm
@Nassau Taxpayer- You write as if you believe YOU are the premiere expert in demand forecasting or anything else ToNH related, That might be the single most laughable part of this whole blogging! It's doubtful that you even believe your own continuous rhetoric against this issue and any other ToNH issue that revolve around the current administration. If you truly believe you are correct stop hiding your angry tirades and negativity against the town behind your fictitious name. Why else won't you let your version of the facts and truths stand alongside your actual name? Why not actually identify yourself? Maybe your own personal record will help give more credence to your attacks.
@Christine O- I think you're right... It does seem as though all this opposition is more of a personal vendetta! I smell a rat...
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Well, Linda, the joke is on you, and hopefully not on all Town taxpayers.
I supported the present administration, only to find it veering off in completely uneconomic and irrational directions driven by politically connected cronyism, which I simply refuse to support. (Not limited to the RCC issue, I will add.) Any objective scrutiny of the RCC business case says it's completely made up to suit the Town's argument, which I think Ms. DiGiorgio is onto. But don't take my word for it, bring in your own independent expert if you have any doubt. They'll likely tell you, as I have, that the Town's "business case" can't pass any objective laugh test. You ought to ask the promoters why they did that, which once again, I think Ms. DiGiorgio is onto. Be careful what you ask for, lest you get it.
Stephen July 26, 2012 at 10:27 pm
NT. Huh? Elasticity is a relative term as in "more" or "less" or "inelastic". It is not a characterisic on its own that prevents or causes anything. And use of facilities like Harbor Links and Town marina and the pool complex at Eisenhower as well as multiple private facilties suggests that demand for recreational facilities is indeed sufficiently elastic that your prediction of failure is...without substance.
And noone but you suggests the a breakeven at 1200-1500. Breakeven is 1000 per the Town's models and detailed run rate (available on their website: readers, check it out). Another number you've pulled out of a dark orifice. As for demand destruction, you're just being silly and I won't respond.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 10:48 pm
It's OK if you're not an economist and don;t understand the relevant terminology. But you had better consult one that isn't in the Town's pocket before you buy a very expensive empty bag.
Nassau Taxpayer July 26, 2012 at 10:53 pm
BTW, the 1200-1500 is including the tennis memberships at the stated above-market prices, also subject to demand elasticity and destruction.
But you knew that, right, steve-o?
Stephen July 27, 2012 at 11:34 am
Where's the beef? By lack of substance (the park killers' strategy) I mean saying "above market" without saying how you concluded that. It means the source of your 1200-1500 figure, tennis notwithstanding isn't clear and you are doing your best to keep it vague. Link us to a source. Same for elasticity. If you keep things simpler, you won't give the impression you are trying to confuse folks into nodding their head at what you say.
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 01:40 pm
Where's the banquet? It's at the caterer's -- "the park rationalization strategy".
As I stated earlier, it's OK if you're not an economist and don't understand the relevant terminology. But now you're being obstinately stupid about it. The 1200-1500 membership figure includes tennis memberships (look it up) at the stated above-market prices (look it up), also subject to demand elasticity and destruction (look up these easy to understand economic terms, and stop acting dumber than you probably are). Now tell me you looked all that up and still refuse to smell the catering, oh obstinate one.
fred July 27, 2012 at 03:20 pm
I have a compromise. Why not have the 688 homeowners in Roslyn be responsible for any shortfall? Since it seems the residents of Roslyn are sure they will have enough memberships then this should be no problem for them.
Stephen July 27, 2012 at 04:01 pm
Sure, Fred. And NHP or wherever youre from can pay for your own streets to be paved because I don't use them. And everyone in Port can pay for Manorhaven and Harbor Links and Bar Beach over runs if there ever are any. And since I don't use Eisenhower Park much, only people from East Meadow can pay for that. Your problem is that you don't want to live in a Town where resources are shared.
NT, clear as mud. You make my point. Over and over. Anyone who understands NTs arguments and can tie them into real information should vote against the Park.
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 04:43 pm
To be clear, this is not an argument about "common good", it's an argument against a bad business case. Anyone who doesn't think the Town has a valid business case should inquire further, and vote accordingly.
Linda Zarin July 27, 2012 at 04:52 pm
NT, NT, NT... Stephen does make a point. I would like to read the same documents you did. You know, the ones where you found the statistics and figures used to support your arguments? Would you be so kind, not to mention factual, as to cite the links to the websites or court cases you read and pulled the facts and figures from so the rest of us can look at them and see if we agree with your conclusion? Don't worry about including the Bridgeport citation. Since you only referred to it, I read the link Jared provided and I agree with him on this one. You need to compare apples to apples.
Stephen July 27, 2012 at 05:21 pm
Substance please. Would be happy to debate these points. My reaction is "the business case is good." Every bit as much substance as NT's point.
Substance please. Would be happy to debate these points. My reaction is "the business case is good." Every bit as much substance as NT's point. Folks, nothing is perfect, I'm the first to acknowledge that. But if you are relying on things that NT is saying and that his or her fellow park haters are saying then you are buying a pig in a poke. Please consider carefully before you vote.
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 05:23 pm
1./ The Town's "business case", as disingenuous as that forecast is, in my opinion, is published on the Town's website.
2./ Mr. Kaiman's dismissive comments to questioners at Town meetings have been memorialized in videos posted on Patch. Town meeting minutes citing the Las Vegas-based dialogue between caterer and Mr. Dwyer have been cited on Patch. These (videos and cites) are classics. 3./ Ms. DiGiorgio has developed a further set of facts on prior membership data and pricing, as well as comparable club price points, about which she wrote on Patch. Have at it. You can do your own homework, right?
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 05:33 pm
You want substance?
1./ The Town's "business case", as disingenuous as that forecast is, in my opinion, is published on the Town's website. 2./ Mr. Kaiman's dismissive comments to questioners at Town meetings have been memorialized in videos posted on Patch. 3./ Town meeting minutes citing the Las Vegas-based dialogue between caterer and Mr. Dwyer have been cited on Patch. 4./ These (videos and cites) are classics, and ought to be carefully considered in context of the above "forecast". 5./ Ms. DiGiorgio has developed a separate set of facts on prior RCC membership data and pricing, as well as comparable club price points, about which she wrote on Patch. 6./ Whether it's a pig in a poke, or pork shared between Town and caterer, you can decide. 7./ Paraphrasing Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men": "You want substance? You can't stand the substance." In particular, those foisting on the taxpayers a disingenuous pig of a forecast can't stand the substance.
Stephen July 27, 2012 at 07:55 pm
Substance please.
You wan't these readers' votes, NT? At least show them the respect of doing a little homework, laying out your arguments and explaining why. Sheesh! 1. And it's a "bad business case" because.... 2. Your going to vote against a park because you feel insulted....?!? 3. Not relevant. 4. Not relevant. 5. Substance please. Argue them. Why are they right/more logical? What are they? Why should anyone believe your conclusions are worthy of their vote? "Somebody said so" doesnt hold a lot of water. 6. Huh? Don't even know what you're referring to. Why is a caterer involved? What pork for the caterer? Anything to support this or are you just making up "facts?" 7. Not relevant. Readers, again, NT likes to speak in a loud voice, but doesn't say much you can assess and decide how to use your vote. This is nothing but rhetoric. An empty vessel. Folks you need to vote your heart, but please don't allow a facility like this to go unbuilt based on nothing more than "I hate it." All of the park hater leaders seem to have personal interests wrapped up in this. If you're going to vote against, you really ought to be comfortable you have the facts. Not saying every fact goes my way or this is a slam dunk decision. I AM saying the "facts" you read here just...aren't. I'm just sayin'...
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 08:40 pm
More substance for Stephen (1 of 2):
1./ The Town's "business case" is published on the Town's website. 2./ Demand forecasting isn't the Town's strong suit. Pricing memberships high enough to "cover all the costs" while finding 1200-1500 pool and tennis members required to pay these above-market membership prices is counter-intuitive due to price elasticity in the demand for discretionary purchases, and demand destruction with above-market pricing. The Town's business case is disingenuous and doesn't pass the laugh test. 2./ The supervisor's dismissive comments to questioners and refusal to answer their questions at Town meetings have been memorialized in videos posted on Patch. Watch them. It is highly unprofessional to refuse to respond to legitimate questions. I imagine it would be very uncomfortable to justify a downright laughable demand forecast or a total fabrication from the get-go, but the questions deserve a candid response. And the plan deserves to be vetted objectively and independently. 3./ Town meeting minutes quotes citing a Las Vegas-based dialogue between the caterer and an elected official have been cited on Patch. These are highly relevant to the disingenuous demand (and P&L) forecast and the refusal to respond to criticism. If you can't understand that, you're not listening or interested.
Nassau Taxpayer July 27, 2012 at 08:41 pm
....continued... More substance for Stephen (2 of 2)
4./ The videos and town meeting minutes cites ought to be very carefully considered when weighing the validity of the Town's demand and P&L "forecasts". 5./ Ms. DiGiorgio has developed a separate set of facts on prior RCC membership data, membership pricing, and comparable facility membership price points, about which she wrote on Patch. Perhaps she will expand on these in the future and report back on Patch. 6./ You act as if you can't understand the above issues, either individually or collectively, in context. I suppose it's possible that these issues are still way over your head, but at this point, I suspect it's more likely you are simply unwilling to acknowledge anything but your own narrow viewpoint. 7./ I'll repeat this periodically until the referendum and see if you've done your homework. Remember to show your work.
geprge July 30, 2012 at 09:05 am
During a Town Board meeting ,the owner of the club (Many Malekan) refered to a meeting between him and Dwyer in VEGAS , whereby Dwyer interjected , saying "Many stop stop you know what they say, WHAT GOES ON IN VEGAS STAYS IN VEGAS"
NH pays tax August 1, 2012 at 03:33 am
I for one do not trust Kaiman, I've had close dealing with him the ease by which he lies is really scary

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from Port Washington Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Nassau Taxpayer June 14, 2013 at 03:26 pm
Particularly out of line since it's a shared-use puddle for camp groups splashing, not a good poolRead More venue for individuals swimming.
jonathan winant June 16, 2013 at 03:17 pm
The TONH should be under some investigation for charging such a high fee for a very short summerRead More season. You lose most of june and the pool closes in early September. Better off paying as you go just purchase the parking permit which is good at the Manorhaven Pool and the Harbor beach. Stop buying a season pass in protest to the yearly excessive price increase.
Nassau Taxpayer June 16, 2013 at 04:29 pm
And speaking of investigations, what's up with Jonny's Roslyn CC fiasco?
sadeto June 10, 2013 at 05:00 pm
Contact the Village and the water district, it's probably a problem with a pipe on your street.
emo11050 June 10, 2013 at 08:03 pm
We had discolored water on Hickory also.